Blazing a Trail for Change: An Interview With Olivia Cheng - Part Two

JXM's conversation with Olivia Cheng, actress/broadcast journalist, continues as we discuss the Asian identity, and what things have to change in the film and television industry...

JXM: How would you personally define the Asian Canadian identity or culture?

Olivia: What is Asian Canadian identity? It's something that is so ambiguous for so many of us growing up, because especially when we come from immigrant families where our parents came from a completely different culture, and a completely different country, and they're struggling to adapt to a whole new world really. And they're struggling to build a life for their children through the culture shock. They're raising us in the way they've been raised and with the values that they've been taught and we go out into a completely different world that doesn't reflect the world they grew up in, so naturally there's going to be conflict and we're going to be exposed to things that contradict the values our parents are trying to implement in us. It's natural. It's totally natural. And that confuses us. That makes us resentful. That makes us question whether or not we're good enough.

I really find that the stereotype of the passive Asian man is rooted in a sense that - there's a bit of truth in it because it's a survival mechanism I think a lot of our parents have learned. That if you're quiet and submissive, and you don't create trouble, you'll survive. Then for us to come in and see our non-Asian counterparts be so much more brash and bold compared to what we learn at home, it can be really confusing. I don't think it's abnormal that I can say that when I was small, I wanted blonde hair and blue eyes, because I thought being Chinese meant not fitting in. And I made it mean that. I think inadvertently my parents reinforced that confusion. Inadvertently.

So I think the Asian Canadian identity for youth like me is just a discovery. There's no real definition. Asian Canadian identity is a discovery for a lot of us. Talk to the next generation. Talk to my kids and it's going to be different because then they're going to be raised by someone who's grown up here. A lot of us are still that next generation that's going to be a lot louder than our parents' generation. It's going to take our generation to stand up and say, "You know what? I'm not scared to say I have a right to demand this, just like any other citizen." We're the generation that more of us, we're not scared to demand more. I think a lot of our parents are scared to demand more because they're just barely surviving in a world that they don't really understand, that they've adapted to but don't necessarily feel like they fit into. And when you're in a situation like that, of course you're scared to demand more because you're just trying not to get beaten up or beaten down. Sometimes literally you're trying not to get beaten up.

When my grandparents and parents first came here, my dad's side, they opened a restaurant and people threw rocks at the windows. What does that teach you? That teaches you to keep your head down and stay out of trouble. You think they're going to stand up and demand more? They're just trying to get by. But I come from a generation where it's like, "Okay, I'm understanding what it means to be Chinese, and accepting that and knowing that that's not a hindrance, that that's just part of my identity, but I also understand how to work the system. This Canadian system." Why wouldn't I demand more? I think that's why that Asian Canadian identity is about discovery. And that's why it's important to me to not just be an actor but to be a filmmaker. Because until people see us beyond those stereotypical two dimensional stereotypes, that are rooted in a bit of truth, we're not going to be as human to people who maybe don't understand where we come from. That's why I think it's so important to be a filmmaker, because it's another way of telling our stories. Because it's in telling stories that people see you as, "Oh, I relate to you. I get that too." Then the world becomes more colour blind.

JXM: What do you think the current climate of the film and television industry is like in terms of Asian North American representation?

Olivia: Here's the current climate. If you were to ask me a year ago, I would have bitched and complained and said there's not enough roles and you do not see enough of us on television. There's truth to that, but you also look around and would be like, "Well shit, there's not enough of us even trying to be in the industry, yet there's so many of us who sit back and then bitch about it." So if we really want to see a change, then collectively we need to get involved, because no one else is going to fight for our rights and fight for our stories if we're not the ones in there being like, "Why can't I play that part? Why can't I make a film about that? I'm going to learn how to write a screenplay. IÕm going to learn what it means to be a producer. I'm going to go take that acting class and just do this step by step and get my foot in the door, if that's what I really want to do because to sit back and just complain, how does that change anything? It was Ghandi that said "You have to be the change you want to see in the world."

Overall in general, there aren't enough of us. But at the same time, I feel like this is a great time to get into the industry because you have Sandra Oh, you have Lucy Liu headlining movies. Lucy Liu is coming out with Rise. Her face is the entire poster. That's huge. That's huge! How many other non-Asian actors did she beat out to win the title role in that movie. That's incredible. You've got actresses like that paving the way for us. Now is the time to come in and make the change that we want to see in the industry, because if we keep sitting back and complaining and judging, well shit, why should the industry executives be fighting for Asians if they're not Asians themselves? Because of course they're not going to think of it. They're going to fight for - I don't mean fight for their own, like it's a racial thing - but they're going to fight for what they know because they don't know our stories. So that's why we have to get in there.

JXM: How much do you think that has to do with what's inherent in Asian culture? For example, practicality and security are values that the culture teaches, and the film and television industry doesn't offer it.

Olivia: I think it's a huge thing in our culture. It's a huge reason that it took me so long to get into the industry that I wanted to get into because I think there's a huge cultural conditioning that teaches us to pick what's safe. And there's a lot of reasons for that. You pick what's safe and you pick what's secure and that's why there is a stereotype that we're all engineers and accountants and businessmen and dentists because that's safe and it takes smart people to be them. We're all smart and you can be the dumbest Korean in the world and still get into business school because you're Korean. Oh great, you're smart.

Asians, culturally, we are not stand up and say, "I am here, look at me! I am going to live big." Look at the females. The good Asian girls. We're submissive. We do this a lot (bows head). Why would we then feel comfortable in an industry where you have to fight to be seen and you have to fight to get your voice heard. No matter what race you are. Every actor and producer, no matter what background they come from, they have to fight to be seen and heard in an industry like this. So culturally we're not taught to be fiery and to fight. We're taught to follow the norm and fit in. It's the cultural reasons behind the fact that there are so few Asians in this industry. They're huge, and I understand it. That's why it would be such an honour to be part of a group of filmmakers that change that. You've got Justin Lin out there. Even on the East Asian end, you've got Kal Penn. You've got John Cho. Deepa Mehta. They're proving that ethnic stories can appeal to communities outside of that ethnic profile. That if you just find the root of humanity, a good story is a good story. No matter what setting it's in. No matter what race the characters are. If it's a good story and we relate to the humanity it'll work. Talk to me in a year and I might be all bitter and jaded and cynical and be all like, "It's a failure! I quit! I'm going to marry a rich guy!"

JXM: Specifically, what do you think about the portrayal of Asian North American females in the media?

Olivia: There's definitely still stereotypes, but there's stereotypes in everything. The blondes get cast as dummies sometimes. I still go out for roles where I'm not just named Nancy or Susan, I'm named some weird Chinese name where you have to click your tongue to say it, and some white dude decided that that was going to be my name and that I would have to have a modified Chinese accent, not a real Chinese accent, because then we're not going to understand you and you're going to sound completely unattractive. Just something Chinese enough where we get that you weren't born here. Something exotic sounding. It still can be frustrating, but again I look at Sandra Oh, on Grey's Anatomy. And I look at what Lucy Liu's doing. And I know that there is hope. Look at B.D. Wong on Law and Order: SVU. Look at some of the stuff that John Cho gets to do, he plays that producer on American Dreamz. That had nothing to do with being Korean. Look at Grace Park on Battlestar Galactica. Unfortunately it is only a few handfuls of examples, but at least we have a few handfuls. Maybe I'm speaking for myself. But I also go out for a lot of roles that specifically do not call for Chinese. In fact I auditioned for a role today that was specifically written for a redhead, a Polish girl. The fact that casting directors are still willing to see you - yeah, you might be an ethnic wildcard - but the industry I think is open if you're good enough. If you're good enough and you do the work and you prove to them that you can act. Every actor has something about them that casting directors, at first in general, might not like about them. Like he's not hunky enough, he's too short, he's too blonde. Every actor has something physical about them that they see as a hindrance. If you get to the point where you know you can act and you know that you're doing the work then I just think it's about being prepared.

There's always going to be bad writing in this industry. And bad writing always falls back to stereotypes. There's always going to be stereotypes that we as an Asian community get so offended by. It's going to be a reality. But at the same time we're going to laugh at the dumb blonde jokes, we're going to laugh at the jokes that take place within other ethnic communities and we're not going to have a problem with that. I'm not as angry about it as I was years ago because I'm starting to realize, why was I so angry? Because I wasn't doing anything. Also, because I think I feel like because I'm in it now trying to make a change, then I can't be as angry because I understand the industry more. Maya Angelou I think was the one who said this, "When you know better, you do better." So if the industry doesn't know better how is it supposed to do better? It's not going to know better until more of us get in there and be like, "You know what fucker, that's really offensive. Who the fuck do you think you are making a joke like that?" And the writer might seriously be like, "Really? Oh, I thought it was funny." "Hell no!" Until someone's there to be like, "You know, that's not funny. That's just plain offensive. And if that's what you're going for, alright. But if you're trying to be funny, that's not funny."

JXM: On the flip side, what do you think about the portrayal of Asian North American males?

Olivia: That pisses me off in a way. I'm thinking of Lucy Liu and Sandra Oh and Zhang Ziyi. Only a few guys, B.D. Wong and John Cho. I think guys definitely have it a lot tougher than girls because girls, honestly, we have our sexuality to play off of, more than Asian males. Asian males get Details magazine questioning their heterosexuality and painting them as these asexual beings. It's undesirable, it's sexless. So honestly, I think guys have it way tougher than Asian females because they have a much stronger stereotype to break. But again, I think it takes that one in the crowd who shows that - you look at Jin tha MC, you think anybody thought that Asians had any kind of flavour or street cred until he got up and blasted them away for that BET 106 and Park? - it takes that one to be like, "Yeah, we can do it too!" for it to change. Justin Lin making that movie where it's like, "Yeah, Asian boys can be badass. Asian boys can beat people up and fight with the best of them. And fuck up and screw up and do drugs. Just like you. We're not perfect. We're horny too! We're human too. We're jealous and we're petty and we're angry. And just because we sit there and smile at you, trust us there is a lot of repressed anger that's just going to fucking burst if you push us the wrong way!" I think the portrayal of Asian males, it's a lot rougher than what's going on with Asian females. I am trying to think. I can only think of B.D. Wong, John Cho, Justin Lin's behind the camera...

JXM: Daniel Dae Kim.

Olivia: Oh, right. There's Rick Yune, but I haven't seen him for awhile. There's Byron Mann. Some local actors. There's no male equivalent to Lucy Liu and I think it's going to be a lot harder for that to happen. I think John Cho is in line for that. But someone has to give him the right role. Because I think he's sexy. Who else is really sexy? There was another guy who was in The Motel.

JXM: That would be Sung Kang.

Olivia: Oh, God! Sung Kang man! Yes! That guy is sexy! Sung Kang. Watch him in The Motel. Sung Kang plays this totally fucked up, stripper chasing, horny deviant male, and it's sexy. He is so not the typical Asian male stereotype in that film and it is sexy. He pulls it off beautifully. It is so possible. Someone's just got to give them those roles and they've got to get distributed. I just have faith it's going to happen because they're out there.

JXM: I thought he was great as Han in Better Luck Tomorrow. He was that badass!

Olivia: He was the big jock dude right? You should see him in The Motel because that's Han grown up, gone through a cocaine period, probably had a few STD's by now and is bitter and jaded and cynical about the world but is still trying to get some ass. And it's awesome. He's so great in that movie. I was like, "Man, I'll be one of his ho's! He's cute!" It's just based on the personality and the charisma he brings to it. He's a great actor. I don't know that if I walked by him on the street I'd do like a double take necessarily but it's just that charisma he brought to the role, it was like, "Damn. Damn!" He's so fucked up. He's so unattractive in the sense that he's such a complete deviant loser. He's living out of a motel bringing strippers in or ho's in. He's still so appealing. He's that bad boy who never grew up. Nobody thinks of Asians like that.

JXM: Do you think there are differences between Canada and the U.S. in terms of Asians in the media? If so, what do you think they are?

Olivia: I don't know. I don't know, the U.S. market well enough to answer that.

JXM: Any personal opinions about the differences?

Olivia: Here's what I've noticed. There's a lot more - I think because you've got higher numbers of population in general therefore you have a higher number of Asians in the U.S., there's way more filmmaking, specifically Asian filmmaking happening in the U.S. I was looking at the lineup for the San Francisco International Asian American Film Festival that just happened, and there were all these incredible sounding films, and all these filmmakers were out of the States and the films that they were making sounded incredible. I was like, "How come we don't have these?" I can think of Mina Shum in Canada and that's it. I can't think of - what other Asian Canadian filmmakers do we have?

JXM: I can think of only Julia Kwan of Eve and the Fire Horse.

Olivia: Oh, yeah yeah. Of course! But just not too many who I know of that are just trying. That's the thing. I looked at the lineup and I'm like, "Where did they get all these filmmakers?" They had a full lineup over three or four days. And these are Asian American stories. Except for Double Happiness, Long Life, Happiness & Prosperity, and Eve and the Fire Horse I can't think of any other films or short films that reflect the Asian Canadian experience.

JXM: And the funny thing is that in Canada they're mostly female.

Olivia: I think being an artist - there's a sensitivity to it that girls get away with being sensitive. Males are expected to buckle down and feed their families and be a man!

JXM: What do you think needs to happen with the next generation of Asians making there way into the film and television mediums in order for there to be some positive change? What advice would you have for them?

Olivia: Simple! What I think needs to happen, is more Asians need to nurture that creative artist within them and take a plunge and just do it. There needs to be more of us in the industry, fighting for our stories to be told. Take power. One stereotype that is very true for us is we are a fucking smart race! We are a smart people! (in a Chinese accent) We so smart! We smart ah! We know how to figure things out! (reverts back) We are. Think of how the Chinese changed - we were so hated when we were building the railroads yet banded together and created a freakin' union!

There needs to be more of us because we're resourceful. We're creative. We've got good ideas. So let's do it. Stop being an accountant for your parents' sake. It's not their lives, they'll get over it. Think of how proud they'll be when you accept an Oscar. "That's my boy!" Then they're really going to get to brag about you. You know how parents insult their own kids. "Oh no, Olivia's so dumb compared to Lisa! No, Olivia's so ugly! Lisa's so much prettier!" It's like, "Really? You're that scared of the spirits and the Gods that are going to strike me down if you brag too much about me, so instead you're going to cripple my self-esteem for life!" It's your life. You got to look at - and totally unrelated, off on a tangent - why is that Asian females are the highest demographic to be hit with depression? We have to look at what the cultural conditioning is that teaches Asian females to value others so much more than themselves. To the point where what we want and who we are almost becomes worthless. It's that kind of attitude collectively that's going to keep us from doing what we really want and fighting for what we really want. I'm just saying for the males and the females in the Asian community who can relate to what I'm trying to illustrate by bringing up that mental illness statistic that if we keep trying to live for everyone else's dreams or everyone else's expectations of who we should be and what we should do with our lives, instead of honouring what we really want to do... (sarcastically) you might get really sick! You might get depression! No... we end up hurting ourselves and we don't move forward.

When I talk to Asians who are like, "Wow, you're acting, you're doing it? Man, no I couldn't" There's such a fear. We've been conditioned to be so fearful, as a culture. So fearful of taking risks. And I get where that comes from. When you look at the societal pressures that have been placed on Asians that have shaped us to become what we are. And what's happened in China that then comes over here. When you look at all of that. I get it. But I choose not to let it shape me anymore, because why? Basically, I'm saying I know that there's so many budding actresses, actors, filmmakers, writers, producers, television network executives out there amongst the Asian community, but they stop themselves and they let that fear of becoming what they really want to be continue to dictate what they do with their lives, how are we collectively as a culture going to move forward in an industry like this. And just in life in general. Because man, I've been there.

It took me a long time to finally just stop denying that I wanted to be an actor. It took me an even longer time to be able to say I'm an actor without apologizing for it. I realized it was just me judging myself from what I wanted to do because it's just been so engrained in me. It's just like, "Fuck it man." Life's too short. Life's way too short. As long as you don't end up on the street begging for change. It'll be fine. Go do that. Your parents will get over it. Well, I mean they might give you a hard time, but really. That's why you move out of the house! And I know that too! I lived with my parents until I moved out of Edmonton and moved to another city! But there's ways to get away from your parents if that is the biggest factor that is keeping you down! You can get a job! You can get roommates! You can find a way to live without your parents! And if they estrange you, then there's lots of white people out there looking to adopt Chinese kids! Find that new white family! That's what it's all about!

That would be so great if somebody read this article and said, "Fuck it. I'm going to film school." When I meet any artist who wants to be an artist, you can see how scared they are. It's just like, "Man, I understand. Go do it." Because once you just start doing it, you realize that your fear was just that, that's all it was, fear. You create what you project, and you work through it. When I came back from Toronto it's just like, "Wow, I'm okay." I was so scared when I left Edmonton. I was so scared. I left so much behind. I left my family. I left my friends. I left the life I knew. I left such a comfort zone. Came out here and started from square one and there was a lot of issues I had to get over. My own pride. It's not an easy industry, but man, if you got that fight in you, you can fight for the rest of us! And fight to cast Olivia Cheng in your next project! Fight to make me a star! Don't print that. The quote that's the headline, "Fight to make me a star!" - Olivia Cheng. There's [probably going to be] like these anti-Olivia Cheng websites coming up! This bitch is representing our culture! Somebody needs to kill her! We'll never make it in this industry now with her as a spokeswoman! Fucking $500 bounty on this bitch's head!

JXM: Hmm, sounds like a great headline! Just kidding. But before you go, is there anything else you're working on right now?

Olivia: I literally just got back Thursday. So I've been out of the audition pool for the last three, four months because of this. You can't audition for stuff you're not going to be available to shoot, in case you do get it. Then they're just like, "Why the fuck did you send her in?" And then they get mad at the agent. So I've been out. I got back Thursday, and I literally am two days back into the auditions, which is cool. I came back and I had an audition the next day and I was like all jet lagged, and I was like, "I can't learn my lines! I need coaching." I had two today. I got right back into it. It's interesting. With the Canadian dollar being so strong, I'm actually a little worried for us actors, because I don't know if that'll affect the number of projects that come here. Last time I checked it was 94 cents. People came here when we were like 40 cents to the dollar. I don't know what's next. I know what I'm trying to work on, which is this screenplay, because I don't know when the next role is coming along, so I'm not going to wait. I'm going to at least work on trying to create my own project. I don't know, again, talk to me in a year and I might be like, ÒCan you buy me lunch because I haven't eaten in three days!" I used to be really self-conscious being like that. Being like, "I don't know." Because I felt like a total loser. But you know what? That's what it is! I don't know! Again, if anyone has a project out there to cast me in... Lucas Talent! And I don't know if this project is going to open up any doors for me. I don't know if anyone's going to see it. I really don't know. It's crazy not knowing.

JXM: Thanks so much for chatting with us!

Olivia: No problem! It was fun!